After The Nudge Podcast | We Swim Too | Toyota
Welcome to Ask After the Nudge Podcast. I’m Soledad O’Brien. I’m J.R. Smith. On this platform, we chat with some of the nation’s most outstanding grassroots community organizations. And through that, we decided to give a nudge to Toyota of $10,000 of a microbrew. A nice big nudge.
Today, we’re joined by a dynamic force out of Long Island, New York. The founder of Black People will Swim. Paulina Lemonnier. Elena, nice to have you. Did I say your last name, children? It only took me several. I think it’s so nice to have you. We are such big fans.
Why don’t you start by explaining your organization? I mean, it’s it’s it’s got a pretty clear title, but. But why did you think that was what you wanted to start? Yeah, I like to say black people will Swim is a call to action, right? It’s a sentence in itself.
Black People Swim is a mission based organization created to encourage and empower black and brown people to conquer their fears and learn how to swim. It’s funny because when I read the title immediately took me to a place this past summer. I was with my kids in the pool
And they’ve they’ve been going to swimming lessons and stuff like that. And this is the first time they took their their swim is off. Okay? And, you know, there were days. So they’re feeling courageous or whatever. And on one of the morning, he goes, hey, you got to be careful.
You know, black people don’t know how to swim. And then the first thing I thought it was like, wait a minute, don’t tell. Those are my kids. They don’t tell my kids that I don’t want them to have your fears that you’ve had put into them, like in throughout that
I’ve learned, like so many fears that I’ve been put on other people’s fears been put on by me and how it shaped and affected my life. And I can imagine the stories you hear and just the inspiration you give with just getting kids in the pool and building that courage.
And I’m glad that you recognize that and realize that I need to stop that. Right. Like, I’m going to be that change. I’m in the water with my kids. I’m encouraging them to be fearless because I’m there and someone is kind of placing their fears because they don’t know how to swim.
That’s literally how it happens. A lot of times they’ll go in the water because you can’t, you know, you can’t swim and I can’t save you. And so that is the whole purpose of our organization is encouraging and empowering them to not only conquer their fears,
Not only for the little ones, but for the parents as well. Because in the event that something happens, what’s going to happen? The parent is going to have to risk their lives. And so we want to make sure that everyone is able to make it back safe.
Another thing people say is, oh, you can’t go in the water, your hair. Black people can’t get their hair wet in the water. Okay. So that’s why, you know, we always got to make sure we had the protective hairstyles ready to go, because I think it’s just
That there is a lack of education and a lack of resources available when it comes to black people and their hair. People don’t know that there are different types of swim caps, hairstyles. You could wear and even hair products. So that’s what we’re all about, is simply the solution to the challenges
And barriers that have prevented us from learning this life skill. How did you get into it? I mean, you know, I wouldn’t think necessarily like swimming would be the very first thing that you would think of. Well, my parents put my sisters and I in some lessons growing up
Just trying to keep us at the house. But, you know, luckily for us, you know, my mom grew up somewhat learning how to swim because she took swim lessons in high school and that ended up taking swim lessons in college, you know, as an easy
College class back in the day, you had to put your business out there. So the day you had to pass swimming, you graduate from college. Exactly. And so even now to these days, there are some HBCU’s that do implement that rule, like Howard.
You know, swimming is a mandatory class that you have to take in order to graduate. And so, you know, kudos to them and other schools and programs that are really encouraging, you know, black people to learning this skill. So luckily for me, I learned how to swim.
I ended up swimming on my college swim team and then my coach took me under his wing to learn to learn how to be a coach. And it was great seeing how we were the only black team surrounded by other, you know, white teens at swim meets
And really understanding the impact that we were having. And then that’s where I just kind of took off and really made it a not more than a hobby, but more of a career. What are the age groups that you work with or specialize in,
Or do you work for adults as well, or is it mainly youth? We teach all ages. We have a parent and child class. So from six months old to this summer, we actually taught an 88 year old how to learn. Oh yeah. How to learn how to swim, which was amazing.
So the the sport itself is very white. How much of an obstacle is that for the folks from age 1 to 88 that you’re that you’re teaching? Does that bother people? Is it something you have to overcome with them as far as what the obstacle in teaching them how to swim?
You know, I think there are certain sports that people are like, that’s not for me. You know, that’s just that’s not for us. That’s not where we go over here. We do. We play basketball, we do these other things, and those people swim. Is that something that when
When people come to you, you have to help them overcome that? Like, no, it is for you. You know, it’s really interesting. Thus far, I haven’t encountered that with people coming into our program is those who don’t want to who don’t come to our program.
A lot of times people who come to our program are people who, you know, they’ve had a bad experience, they’ve witnessed an experience, or they’re just tired of being left out. They’re tired of being the only one on the boat, not being able to scuba dive,
Not being able to jet ski, not being able to, you know, enjoy pool parties because they don’t know how to swim or they have this fear that literally paralyzes them from going into the deep end. And so people in our program, when they signed up, they’re like kind of fed up.
They’re like, I’m frustrated. I’m going to, you know, stop this generational curse. I’m going to be the first in my family to learn how to swim or it’s the other way around where they’re like, you know, I may not have enough funds to put in for myself,
But I’m going to make sure that my kids learn this life skill. I hear often, but I don’t think it’s spoken loud enough. Think about so many different black areas where they take the pool out and take the water out and take the kooks off it. Why does that matter?
I learned a lot, not in Long Island, but New York has a very big history as far as there’s this thing called white flight in New York. So as you know, more black and brown people started to move into the inner cities. White people, especially those who had money,
They would move out east, create their own country clubs, and they closed the pool and they were closed. There is a court case that went to the Supreme Court because this was during the time of of segregation where we were going from the Jim Crow
Era of segregation into the Jim Crow era, where they were trying to integrate. And so there is a court a court case that reached the Supreme Court where once they integrated that pool, they shut it down automatically and then the black people were suing the community for that. And they said,
Well, it’s not a racist thing because nobody’s using the pool at all. So they really couldn’t prove that case. And so you’re right, there are a lot of instances where, you know, once the pool started to integrate, a lot of white people didn’t feel comfortable swimming with black people.
And so they went ahead and created their own pools and communities for them to feel comfortable in. I didn’t realize that history in New York. Oh, listen, Terrence Howard and Bernard Lake Bernie Mac recipes about a black swimming coach in Pennsylvania
Ended up teaching, teaching the kids how to swim and says because it was run ran down there running, you know, running everybody out of the rec center. It was closing the rec center. And they pretty much save this rec center and taught the community how to swim.
I have state championships in so many different venues and it’s like if we only have the I don’t know, because this is essentially someone like you who to take that initiative and you’re like, no, this is my this is this is where I’m going to lay my hat on teaching
In my community how to swim and overcoming that fear. Right. Like if you really think about if, you know, the black community had just as much resources, income support, you know, it would we would be able to save more lives. Put it to you this way.
This summer, while we did teach 400 people how to swim, it was kind of pulling teeth to get instructors right. There was a national shortage of lifeguards. Imagine the shortage of swim instructors and then black swim instructors who can relate to that experience.
If you really look at it, it is a trickle down effect, right? And so that’s what our program is about. And to your point, if we level the playing field, there, we’ll be able to decrease drownings in the community. You have some creative ways to solve some of those problems.
You swap volunteer hours for lessons. Tell me a little bit about what you’re doing, because those shortages, I think, exist in every industry now, right? And I think especially with swimming, it impacts it hurts us because with less swim instructors and left less lifeguards, that means that
We’re having less swim lessons, which means less lives are being saved. Right. So but with that program, we we call them our do gooders, right? We don’t call them violence. We want to jazz it up a little bit, call them our do gooders where, you know,
We teach them how to swim and they come and volunteer for us, whether is checking in, checking in our students, selling our merch, you know, assisting us on the administrative level. You know, we’re a small business so we don’t got you know,
We don’t have the funding that other, you know, white owned swim programs have. So we have to be resourceful and creative in our community. The people who support us in our resources. So those do gooders, they come, they get free swim lessons in exchange for helping in support grow our program.
Was there an impact from the pandemic on your swim program? Oh, I guess that’s a yes. Well, the thing is, with the pandemic, we were able to actually execute what our mission statement was, was teach people how to swim. Right.
And so we had to really get creative and think about what are the ways that we can cultivate a community online without having to do it in person. Yeah. So we what’s an online swim program? Well, here’s the thing. We did it through our acronym FACE, right?
Encourage our community, our community to face their fears. That’s having fun. Building awareness, creating community all through education. And so we took those same principles that we do when teaching our program. We implement them online. So creating, engaging content, creating a community, making them aware
Of the statistics that are taking place, but also sharing fun content as well. So it was tough, but I think that is what helped us set the foundation and for us building our swim program the years to come. This goes to something you were saying earlier
About like overcoming your fears when you work with oh, when you work with the people you work with and you see them overcoming that fear, do you see it in other ways and other areas of their life? And whereas
You know, where there would be a parent who’s afraid to learn how to swim before, you know, they’re excelling in so many different parts of their lives opposed to just looking at it like, Oh, I’m just taking swimming lessons. Yeah, I love that question because the thing is, outside
Looking in as a parent, probably like watching their kid learn how to swim. They probably like, oh, I don’t know why my son can’t put his face in the water. I don’t know why he’s having a hard time kicking. But once they’re in that swim class was like, Oh, I see what
I see what he was going through. It is not easy. And I think once they realize how much of of an accomplishment but also a journey of learning how to swim is, that’s when they realize like, okay, I’m not going to minimize these accomplishments that my son is doing in swim lessons. Right.
And and I think that’s what I love most about our program and really what we try to do is encourage parents to learn how to swim as well. You’re a journalist. In addition to teaching America how to swim, which is two great jobs,
Then tell me a little bit about if there’s a connection between journalism and swimming right. There is such a big connection, really. Yeah. For me, I think it came down to doing research and understanding the history when you’re a journalist, you want to make sure that you know your stats, your facts, understanding,
You know, who are the people who started certain things, right? Who are people who are doing the work already. And I think those transferable skills, I was able to use it into building this business, making sure that I did my research, that I spoke with the right people,
While also understanding the barriers that took place. That in fact helped me cultivate and really refine my business plan and making sure that when I’m out here pitching for grants and competitions, that I know what to say and do. So the journalist that comes out, Oh no, I love that. What was
What’s your what’s your goals in the next two years with this? Like, where do you see yourself and where do you see the business and where you want to grow to? My goal, we would love to have a pool like that is
The ultimate goal is to have a location, a place to call home. Right. And we know that is going to take some time in your town, in Long Island, in our town, in Long Island, in Queens, like definitely in New York.
We want to be the first, you know, black owned woman, owned a pool in New York. Listen, we’re going to claim it. Right. But in the meantime, I think for us right now, we also want to focus on how we can continue to grow our community online.
So that made it look like creating an instructor directory, you know, where people can look up some instructors in their neighborhood. Because what we’ve noticed is that we don’t want people to feel excluded. Me and I can’t join a swim program because I’m not in New York.
No, but you can still be part of the movement with an instructor in your area that you can find at your local pool. Despite not being able to get the full black people. Awesome experience. So that’s something that, you know, we want to we’re working on.
And of course merch, which is a big thing because swim caps is really important, right? Especially for, you know, our black women and black members, black people in their hair. That is really important. And so really just making sure we’re creating a really dope product
That will encourage them to take this take on this life skill. What did the $10,000 nudge from Toyota do for you, and what has it been allowed you to do with your organization? That $10,000 from Toyota really helped us. It really, really relieved us from some of the constraints
And the pressure that we usually get as a small business. Right? We have a large demand, but not enough people to help supply or support that demand. So with that grant, we’ve been able to pay our pool rental fees, hire more staff, purchase equipment, and really just be able to provide
The best experience possible as a new yet small business. What does it cost to rent a pool? Who? Okay, so for this summer alone, it costs about $22,000 to rent the location that we were at this summer. Yeah. Pool. And that’s the thing. Swimming is really expensive.
It’s one of those sports and businesses that there’s not much of a return. But the biggest return is you’re saving lives. So financially, you know, it may not be, oh, you know, you’re spending money, but you’re saving lives. And that’s what’s really important. But yeah, 20 to $22000 this summer.
Wow. For this and for for for 16 weeks and this is the hours that you can and can’t use is or is it like free range? Oh, no. So that’s what made it tough, right? Was that we had a certain schedule, so we were using it
Monday through Friday 48, and then Saturdays from 9 to 1, because those were the hours that people really were available to come and learn how to swim. Educating, you know, obviously educating people on swimming and and but you still feel like
You’re doing much more than that with the hair and educate people and they’re like just who they are as a as a person. If you can overcome something, if you care, if you, you know, not being fully aware of your hair texture or whatever, so many different things like
Where do you feel as though you like it’s most impactful to you? Like where you you know, where you. Neches With this, I think where I see the most impact is when, you know, people are on vacation and they’re like, Yo, thank you. Black people will swim and swim in.
I’m in Jamaica without the life vest. You know, I’m able to, you know, go to pool parties and not feel scared. I’m able to swim with my friends. I’m able to swim with my family and not feel left out.
I think, yes, it is, you know, a great way to have a good time. Right. It provides a safety net. But just simply reminding people that this is a life skill. You know, I often remind people that, you know, we’ve had we’ve come from a place where black people didn’t
Were allowed to swim literally, what, 50 years ago, if that. So now imagine that 50 plus years ago we weren’t allowed to swim yet, swim in the same pool to having an 88 year old in your program, learning this life skill that is like there’s no that’s monumental. That is a big deal.
And I tend to remind people that, you know, segregation wasn’t too long ago. It wasn’t too long ago. And I tend to put that into perspective. Another thing I want to remind people is that our program is not excluding anybody. It’s more about highlighting the drownings rates in the black community
And bringing attention to it and solving this issue. I think that’s why it’s important to really mention that, because it’s not a black versus white thing, it’s a us versus a drowning. That’s all we want to make sure we make it known to people. You were an ambassador for Toyotas Nudge Campaign.
Has that platform allowed you to kind of reach more people with that message of especially about drowning? Yes, I feel like people now, they realize that this is not a summer project. This is not a hobby. Like this is a call to action to remind people that, you know, maybe
I should learn how to swim. Maybe I really should take the time. You know, black, black people are drowning at higher rates in any demographic. This is probably my sign to really learn this life skill. And I’m just glad that being an ambassador, we’re able to put swimming
On the forefront and most importantly, swimming for black people where it’s not it’s not really taken seriously in our community. We were we now we’re making sure that that’s no longer the case. And it’s lifesaving. It’s really, really important. Well, you’re doing great work. Congratulations to you on every front.
Thank you. So lovely. Congratulations. Thank you. Am I going to see you guys in a pool sometime? Oh, I’ll be there. Okay. I’m a certified lifeguard. I got certified after. I ain’t going that far. See, under. I was. You do? I was nervous. Well, like a million things.
You listed all things. You can’t scuba dive. You can’t do this. I’m like, I don’t go jet skiing. Right? Diving. But I worry that, you know, I wanted to be able to save anybody who. God forbid, something happened in my pool. You know, I want to build a jump in and rescue you.
So, yeah, no, I we’ve made sure that that kind of stuff scares me. Well, you know, I’m a journalist like you. We know all those stats, and it keeps you up at night. So I think what you’re doing is amazing. And I’m a Long Islander, but to your knowledge, it’s swim. Mm.
We’ve got some good beaches there. We do. Amazing. Thank you for, for joining us. We appreciate it. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. You bet. And thanks to all of you as well for joining us for After the Nudge podcast. But maybe you should also give out your Wi-Fi.
Is this the camera I’m looking at? Please be sure to go to black people will swim. Dot com forward slash donate and please be sure to pick one of the two tiers to support our community in providing low cost slash affordable swim lessons so we could bring that drowning number to zero.
I love a woman who’s ready with her and she was shy. So you have to get ready. So there you go. We have to get ready. I love it. And never underestimate the power of a nudge. Thanks for joining us, Paulina. Thank you. Thank.
Paulana Lamonier of Black People Will Swim talks with Soledad O’Brien and J.R. Smith about the barriers and ultimate benefits of Black Americans learning to swim. Lamonier appeared as an ambassador in the Toyota Nudge campaign to support grassroots organizations.
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In the first episode of the After The Nudge Podcast, Soledad and J.R. Smith meet with Paulana Lamonier. Source of information discussed in the interview: https://www.blackpeoplewillswim.com/make-the-promise
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