“The market is no longer there”?!? Other manufacturers seem to be doing just fine.
The ID.4 is outclassed and outgunned by the Tesla MY at a similar price point. The ID.4 lacks basic features such as a power liftgate, power seats etc, until you opt for the Uber-high priced trims.
VW basically puts out products that aren’t competitive and then wonders why they don’t have sales.
Spartanfred104
Writing has been on the wall for Germany manufacturing for a while now.
flyfreeflylow
Articles like this make me think I should throw some speculative investment money into VAG… I just don’t see them going away.
joj1205
VW suck.
Loved their Golf. But their EV golf. What were they smoking ? Less range and double the price. Are you high or what. Basically saying screw you to their base. F em.
Whatwhyreally
Needlessly doomsday. The idea of VW as a brand having two years to turn things around is laughable. They will be fine.
sloping_wagon
They did this to themselves. Up until recently an ID3 was starting at a higher price than a Model Y lol, now they dropped their price so it’s the same as a Model 3 which is still insane since the Model 3 has so many more features it’s not even funny.
Then the ID7. That abomination costs MORE than an Audi A6 ( Mid spec ), not the lowest cheapest model.
What is wrong with VW thinking they can move upmarket like that? they already have Audi for that.. During the pandemic they sold fewer cars for more money and they want that again, well touch luck, people don’t want Audi prices for VW cars
ItsChappyUT
I love my etron.
rossmosh85
I’m not going to pretend to know what’s hurting VW. I’m sure it’s many of the things listed below.
What I will pretend to know is why EV sales are funny right now. That’s because certain people simply won’t even consider looking at EVs. They have a preconceived notion of them being more expensive, difficult, or somehow not viable for their lifestyle despite potentially not being the case.
There’s no doubt that there are circumstances where buying an EV just doesn’t make sense for people, but I think a lot of people buying ICE vehicles right now very easily could buy a similar EV. Right now, it’s about manufacturers capturing that market.
To me, the two things that manufacturers can do to make a meaningful difference is.
1. Take a more hands on approach with charger installations. There’s no meaningful reason why they can’t easily form a division where they have electricians who can go out and install chargers for people. It’s not complicated work most of the time. It’s also relatively profitable work. Chevy did this semi-successfully with Qmerit, but Qmerit was an unnecessary middleman. Just do the work yourself.
2. Get involved in DCFC. VW especially is guilty of this. Why the fuck isn’t VW manufacturing DCFC stations? They “own” EA. They have the incentive. Yet they just elected to be lazy and farm it out and it’s been pretty much a relative disaster all things considered. I know if I spent $60k on a piece of equipment and it had no reliability despite being not use that often in many cases, I’d be pissed. I have a hard time believing that VW couldn’t manufacture an DCFC unit cheaper than who they’re buying from right now and not increase reliability.
Further more, why not stick these stations in dealerships? I know a lot of people are against this model, but the reality is, dealerships are on main roads. There are quite a few of them. They have access to high power anyway because of their locations. They have relatively large parking lots. They benefit from people parking for 20-60 minutes as they can potentially get a new sale or do service to vehicles.
CyborgPoo
Those new E camper vans…they get my vote!
nentis
As a buyback customer of dieselgate VW can rot. Rivian all the way; bring on the R3X pre-order.
kenypowa
Shouldn’t have fired Deiss. He warned the transition would be difficult and painful so of course the board of directors took the easy way out by firing him.
Now the transition will be much worse.
expostfacto-saurus
I will likely consider an ID.4 when I buy my next car (whatever it is, it will be an EV). I would have jumped earlier as i was super excited about a VW bus. Unfortunately it is silly expensive (with no rebate) and shorter range than expected.
centerwingpolitics
One thing that is odd to me is how they didn’t just take their iconic body frames and make electric versions. When you think VW you think beetle, bus, Jetta, etc
So it would have made a LOT more sense to just make an electric Beetle, Jetta, Bus, versus all new designs
Seems like it would have been a better draw for the average consumer
buzzedewok
Fix. 👏The. 👏Software. 👏 Also focus on making hybrids which they have totally ignored. Team up with Toyota for hybrid tech.
Expensive_Web_8534
Sounds reasonable. They are trading at a PE of 3.2. Which means the market expects them to go under in a few years. They are also trading at P/B < 1 which means all their factories are essentially creating fixed costs for them that they can’t rid of easily.
The finance chief is likely eight, even if he is saying to beg German government to give them some sort of a handout.
dontmatterdontcare
Article makes it seem pretty dire, is VW really in this bad situation?
KenTheStud
They need to be more reliable. At least in North America, their reliability isn’t great. That doesn’t incentivize people to buy a second one to replace another VW, or even buy their first.
JustPloddingAlongAdl
Here in Australia they still haven’t come to market with ID3 and ID4. It was announced for 2024 ages ago, but nope. I signed up on the mailing list and didn’t hear anything. So in the end I went ahead and bought a BYD Seal.
Comprehensive-Job369
I recently drove an ID4 and although it was nice I was not wowed enough to get one. On the other hand I drove an EV6 and loved it. ID4 just didn’t have enough of that special sauce that makes you want it. Like the idea of the Buzz but not the price point.
20 Comments
Canary in the coal mine for legacy auto.
“The market is no longer there”?!? Other manufacturers seem to be doing just fine.
The ID.4 is outclassed and outgunned by the Tesla MY at a similar price point. The ID.4 lacks basic features such as a power liftgate, power seats etc, until you opt for the Uber-high priced trims.
VW basically puts out products that aren’t competitive and then wonders why they don’t have sales.
Writing has been on the wall for Germany manufacturing for a while now.
Articles like this make me think I should throw some speculative investment money into VAG… I just don’t see them going away.
VW suck.
Loved their Golf. But their EV golf. What were they smoking ? Less range and double the price. Are you high or what. Basically saying screw you to their base. F em.
Needlessly doomsday. The idea of VW as a brand having two years to turn things around is laughable. They will be fine.
They did this to themselves. Up until recently an ID3 was starting at a higher price than a Model Y lol, now they dropped their price so it’s the same as a Model 3 which is still insane since the Model 3 has so many more features it’s not even funny.
Then the ID7. That abomination costs MORE than an Audi A6 ( Mid spec ), not the lowest cheapest model.
What is wrong with VW thinking they can move upmarket like that? they already have Audi for that.. During the pandemic they sold fewer cars for more money and they want that again, well touch luck, people don’t want Audi prices for VW cars
I love my etron.
I’m not going to pretend to know what’s hurting VW. I’m sure it’s many of the things listed below.
What I will pretend to know is why EV sales are funny right now. That’s because certain people simply won’t even consider looking at EVs. They have a preconceived notion of them being more expensive, difficult, or somehow not viable for their lifestyle despite potentially not being the case.
There’s no doubt that there are circumstances where buying an EV just doesn’t make sense for people, but I think a lot of people buying ICE vehicles right now very easily could buy a similar EV. Right now, it’s about manufacturers capturing that market.
To me, the two things that manufacturers can do to make a meaningful difference is.
1. Take a more hands on approach with charger installations. There’s no meaningful reason why they can’t easily form a division where they have electricians who can go out and install chargers for people. It’s not complicated work most of the time. It’s also relatively profitable work. Chevy did this semi-successfully with Qmerit, but Qmerit was an unnecessary middleman. Just do the work yourself.
2. Get involved in DCFC. VW especially is guilty of this. Why the fuck isn’t VW manufacturing DCFC stations? They “own” EA. They have the incentive. Yet they just elected to be lazy and farm it out and it’s been pretty much a relative disaster all things considered. I know if I spent $60k on a piece of equipment and it had no reliability despite being not use that often in many cases, I’d be pissed. I have a hard time believing that VW couldn’t manufacture an DCFC unit cheaper than who they’re buying from right now and not increase reliability.
Further more, why not stick these stations in dealerships? I know a lot of people are against this model, but the reality is, dealerships are on main roads. There are quite a few of them. They have access to high power anyway because of their locations. They have relatively large parking lots. They benefit from people parking for 20-60 minutes as they can potentially get a new sale or do service to vehicles.
Those new E camper vans…they get my vote!
As a buyback customer of dieselgate VW can rot. Rivian all the way; bring on the R3X pre-order.
Shouldn’t have fired Deiss. He warned the transition would be difficult and painful so of course the board of directors took the easy way out by firing him.
Now the transition will be much worse.
I will likely consider an ID.4 when I buy my next car (whatever it is, it will be an EV). I would have jumped earlier as i was super excited about a VW bus. Unfortunately it is silly expensive (with no rebate) and shorter range than expected.
One thing that is odd to me is how they didn’t just take their iconic body frames and make electric versions. When you think VW you think beetle, bus, Jetta, etc
So it would have made a LOT more sense to just make an electric Beetle, Jetta, Bus, versus all new designs
Seems like it would have been a better draw for the average consumer
Fix. 👏The. 👏Software. 👏
Also focus on making hybrids which they have totally ignored. Team up with Toyota for hybrid tech.
Sounds reasonable. They are trading at a PE of 3.2. Which means the market expects them to go under in a few years.
They are also trading at P/B < 1 which means all their factories are essentially creating fixed costs for them that they can’t rid of easily.
The finance chief is likely eight, even if he is saying to beg German government to give them some sort of a handout.
Article makes it seem pretty dire, is VW really in this bad situation?
They need to be more reliable. At least in North America, their reliability isn’t great. That doesn’t incentivize people to buy a second one to replace another VW, or even buy their first.
Here in Australia they still haven’t come to market with ID3 and ID4. It was announced for 2024 ages ago, but nope. I signed up on the mailing list and didn’t hear anything. So in the end I went ahead and bought a BYD Seal.
I recently drove an ID4 and although it was nice I was not wowed enough to get one. On the other hand I drove an EV6 and loved it. ID4 just didn’t have enough of that special sauce that makes you want it. Like the idea of the Buzz but not the price point.